I was up way too late last night, watching the American election results circus fuelled by the 24 hour news channels and their really self-absorbed analysis and so-called "technical wizardry". In between flicking through news channels, I flipped across to some of the Christian satellite channels, such as Daystar, TBN and God TV. Most of these were showing live broadcasts tracking the elections.
It struck me that the religious right (fundamentalists and evangelicals in "red states" of the USA) has put their entire might and energy behind McCain (not so much McCain, as behind the Republican party and the conservative agenda). And they have lost. Not just lost - the American people have spoken with a loud voice and delivered a crushing blow to Christians who think the biggest issues in the world are abortion, gay marriage and gun ownership!
Barack Obama's victory speech was masterful last night - it should be studied (and probably will be in the future). He asked towards the end what America - and the world - might look like if his daughters lived to see the next century. He talked of change and the need to do things differently. I hope America is really ready for this, for I fear that the conversative Christian agenda will become ever more militant and shrill.
But today, they are smarting from a crushing victory. Lord, give me strength not to gloat.
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Last Election
I think the "American people", the ones who think the government should pay for everything on their behalf, have voted themselves into more poverty. What are they going to do when their milk cow (American's who pay taxes) runs dry? Well, we probably won't have to wait for long. Brits and Canadians have been there and done that; their largest segment of society now is Islamic. By imigrationa alone they no longer have much voice in their on countries, and I guess they want more company, i.e., America . Don't hold your breath...real Amricans will get the country back, if there is a country left by the next congressional election (November 2010). Christians in this country, you must remember, are American citizens, too, and they have a right and a duty to point our country away from immoral lifestyles and immoral, though legal, issues such as abortion. Have you ever took thought of what a late term abortion looks like? Stick a large needle into the soft spot at the nap of the neck of a newborn baby, suction out the brains until the skull colapses, the pull the baby out and prounounce it dead on arrival. What a trite thing to be against !
Assumptions and facts
penfire222,
Thanks for taking the time to respond to my post. I hope you will find this blog a place where civil interaction and conversation is possible.
Part of what enables that is that we believe that everyone is entitled to their own opinions. But not their own facts.
It is just not true that Canada and Britain are now majority Islamic. Since most immigrants are unable to vote, your point about citizens not having a voice could not be further from the truth. However, having said that, is America not a "nation of immigrants" anyway?
To your point about abortion...
Please do not think that I would be in favour of late term abortion. Why would I be? But there is a difference between allowing a woman a limited right to choose, and supporting any and all forms of abortion. This is not a binary discussion, with only two positions (for and against). There are intricate subtleties to potential positions - and, if you're interested, we can discuss these.
Christian?
Do you claim to be Christian and still think American Christians are less Christian for caring about the moral issues of abortion, homosexual agendas, and gun ownership? Do you see what happend in Iran when the "police" had guns and the peopel had rocks? A person's sexual "orientation" is their business, I agree, but they make it our business when they want to push their lifestyl into our school text books; I personally believe it will be the final downfall of this nation if Christians do not vote against and preach against it. We have not, nor will we ever, be "crushed", Jesus Christ saw to that over 2,000 years ago. Evil will fail and be punished; good will triumph always and for eternity !!
Yes, Christian!
I definitely claim to be a Christ follower when I urge people to be more peaceful, and make the world a less violent place. I am not sure I understand your argument about Iran? Are you saying that since the police had guns, it would have been better for the citizens to have guns too? I ask this question while staying in a hotel in Tehran, where I am for a week doing conferences, just 2 weeks after the elections and riots.
In what way are homosexuals pushing their lifestyle into school text books?
Peace
Dear Graeme,
Yes, Christ taught peace, but He also chased the hypocrites out of the Temple with a whip and turned over tables.
He could have said one Word and they would have been demolished.
Scripture also says there is a time to kill, not murder, but to protect oneself and one's family, or one's country.
If it had not been for good and Godly men and women fighting for their own lives and those of their families you
would never have peace.
Government's are appointed by God to protect the people. Our Constitution gives the people right to life, liberty and
pursuit of happiness, (by,of and for the people )and part of that happiness is in knowing we can protect ourselves from evil perpetrators who infringe
on our right to happiness. Therefore, it is common sense that the right to bear arms was given to the people, and not some unknown
militia. Of course, once the U.S. became a nation, armed forces were conceived, but that did not negate the people's right to
protect themselves with whatever arms they could possess, including guns. Our founding fathers KNEW all to well how a handful of tyrants and their armed
cohorts could enslave unarmed people. When a government goes tyrannical someone has the right to step up to the plate and fight for justice. Scripture, in Isaiah says
that God wondered WHY no one was calling for justice; God HATES evil and those who perpetrate it upon others.
The world would be speaking German and Japanese now if Hitler and Hirohito had not been opposed by good people. There would be no churches because there would
be no Christians, there would be no Jews because they would be annihilated, there would be nobody with Down's Syndrome or mental illness because they would
have been killed, along with anyone who did not have blue eyes and blond hair, etc., etc.
Because of the so-called "peace" makers of the day, millions more Jews and others were brutally murdered because they were waiting to negotiate
with unreasonable people. The world will NEVER be perfect, but it is up to good people to insure good overcomes evil. God is not standing by to zap the bad guys. He gave people the built in mechanism
of self preservation, and being a Christian we should be able to discern good from evil and always be willing to fight for the right.
The peace that Jesus taught was to be among the brethren; Jesus said, "love one another as I have loved you; even so, love one another..."; When He said, "love your enemies, pray for them that persecute
you and say all manner of evil against you .... This was an admonition to show genuine love to those who hate us because of our faith, but it was not a blanket command to allow evil people to take over our
lives and make it impossible for us and our families to live in freedom and peace.
When you blithely pronounce other Christians as "fundamentalist" and "evangelicals" just what do you mean? You sound like
you are accusing the brethren to me, which Christ certainly does NOT condone. It seems to me you find it easier to low rate your brothers
and sisters in Christ than pronounce evil men evil, and you refuse to realize evil cannot and will not be reasoned away. If that had been possible,
Jesus would not have had to overcome it on the cross; the most wonderful freedom ever known to man cost God the life of His only begotten Son;
This was a brutal death; it was indeed murder. But God allowed it to accomplish the Greater Good for all the world. Now our enemy, Satan
is defeated spiritually, but he still seeks whom he may devour in this world, and that includes vicious and evil men through whom he works
his evil deeds.
Our American troops, and the coalition troops, are doing more to accomplish peace, and show Christian love to the Iraqi and Afghanistan people than you are by
sitting "peacefully" by watching the tyrants enslave the Iranian people, and kill them at will. You should talk to some of the people who marched for their freedom
over there, and Nada's family and friends. She was there to protest the rigged elections, and peacefully protest and got shot in the head. She is the one who will unite the
people to continue to fight for their freedom; she said even though she may get shot in the heart her presence at the protest would be worth it; somehow, she
recognized just how much freedom could cost; God Himself knew how much true freedom was worth and what it would cost Him. He set our example and expressed it thus;
"No greater love has any man than this than to lay down His life for His friends...". Well, our soldiers are not fighting and dying for their friends, but for their enemies so they might one day
have a government that will serve them and their needs. I doubt this will ever happen over there, but at least we can say we did all we could to give them the opportunity to at least fight for their freedom with the expectation they may win.
Violence never brings godly peace
Glenda,
For the record, I spent the last 10 days actually IN Tehran, Iran. I have actually spoken face to face to people in the country. I am not sitting back doing nothing and writing blog posts. Please be careful of your assumptions - especially when interacting on this blog!
I am not sure where to start even interacting with you. Our worldviews are from such different places. Violence begets violence, and Jesus never used violence. Yes, in righteous anger he overturned some money tables in the temple. But that's a long way from invading another country and killing and maiming both enemy combatants and innocent civilians!
When Jesus was physically assualted by armed soldiers, he told his disciples to respond with peace. He told us to turn the other cheek.
If the intent of the American government is to secure peace in the world, then why have they not invaded Zimbabwe? Or Tibet? Or Myanmar? Or China? Or Honduras? Or Indonesia? Or Sri Lanka? Or most African nations? Oh, wait, those countries don't have oil...
Don't be so blind, please, about your government's intentions in the world. It is not peace they seek. It is their own interests and the interests of America. And, more scarily, the interests of American industry, including and especially the Arms Industry.
Please do not abuse the example of our Saviour to back up your beliefs in a violent world.
"If the intent of the
"If the intent of the American government is to secure peace in the world, then why have they not invaded Zimbabwe? Or Tibet? Or Myanmar? Or China? Or Honduras? Or Indonesia? Or Sri Lanka? Or most African nations? Oh, wait, those countries don't have oil..."
Or...North Korea! Perhaps put off by the fact the "shock and awe" migh be coming the wrong way?
Shock and Awe
I reserve that phrase for Christ's return !
I am sure you are intelligent enough to know our troops can't be everywhere at once, however, we have done more than any nation on this planet to help ALL countries in their time of need; President George W. Bush, whom all love to hate, has done more for the people of Africa and the Aids epidemic there than all the heads of state of all the nations ever even thought to do; as well, the American people have given, over and above the taxes they pay and our governments use, to send aid wherever it is needed, than all the people of all the so-called civilized nations of the world;
We have been sharing our wealth long, long, long before Barach Housein Obama was a speck in his daddy's loins !!!
We have contributed to the world in war and out of war.
"They", includin YOU I am sure, blame all the worlds ills on America and George W. Bush, but I bet if you could take a secret poll of the people of Iraq, where they believed they would not have any retributions at the hands of fanatics in their country, they would tell you they are grateful for the American soldiers and their allies who have given of themsleves to help establish a better place and hopefully a better government AND that they will be afraid for their lives and freedom when the troops do leave.
Our troops will be in more harms way when they are on the back lines for Iraq than they are on the front lines now. Why? Because instead of being able to PREVENT more havoc they will called on to come in and try to stop it and deal with the ugly aftermath of those who WILL come in and seek to decimate the country while we are not on the job. We have world opinion to thank for that. Now Obama has his war to deal with in Afghanistan. I guess the war in Iraq was bad because Bush was president and all the other wars in this world are somebody elses.
The world would go crazy if we became involve in all the places you named; wow, what headlines, America trying to take over the world !
No, the American people would love to help put down evil regimes, but we are rather tired of seeing our sons, daughters, fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters shed their blood in vain, and have them denigrated by people like you for trying to do something to make this world a better and civilized world to live in.
You show me you statistics on how much other countries have sacrificed their own to help any body unreseveredly as we have done. What have we ever gained in any war we ever fought? Japan is our best ally today and a great democracy; No one can point their finger personally or corporately at America without having nine more pointing back at themselves; every country has plundered other nations and made gain at some time in history. those who sought to settle this land began with good intentions, but human greed, avarice and sin began to work its ugly deeds in the minds and hearts of those who had no God to fear.
It has been, and will always be, a battle on a personal level and on the level of nation against nation, between good and evil; righteousness and wickedness and it is on these grounds that each human being is in a raging war every day.
Stop the malicious blame game on a country and a people who, bottom line, want good for the world, not evil. Can you not see how evil or enemies are? How opposed to the living and true God they are?
Wherever you live, whatever country you are from, you owe some thanks to America for any stability you have; as for the economic crisis, thanks to those who have no God; this is another war that the people of America is sacrificing to save the global economy; crooks are to blame, all over the world, not just America. We are dealing with those who have been caught; what else can we do?
I suggest you deal with the ugliness in you own government and your own country first...you know, "remove the beam from you own eye before you try to get the speck out of your brother's eye..."?
Little wonder America is not loved
penfire,
America probably deserves to be admired and loved by the rest of the world. Do you ever stop and wonder why your beloved country is not? Do you think that it is possibly the type of attitude portrayed in your recent interactions on this blog that turns potential admirers against your country?
Once again, on this blog, you are entitled to your opinions, but not your own facts. You have made some factually incorrect statements.
In 1970, the richest nations promised to give 0.7% of the GNI to aid. They have not met this target since then. The average giving per country is at about 0.3%. America gives the most in actual dollars, but as a percentage of GNI, they are the WORST. See: http://tr.im/rShx
Worse still is that there is a gaping divide between what America has promised to do each year, and what they have actually done. This was worst under President Bush. The media reports the promises. Africa experiences the reality. There is a huge gap.
And to add insult to injury, the aid given under President Bush came with so many strings attached that it often caused more harm than good. Aid aimed at helping AIDS sufferers for example was restricted to those organisations teaching abstinence as a solution. Aid was not given to organisations dispensing condoms. See http://tr.im/rSiu
And, finally, if all that was not enough, more foreign aid from America gets paid to American consultants, and to American suppliers of American products.
Read this if you want to know how aid hurts Africa: http://tr.im/rSiI
Please, penfire, can I ask you to either tone down the rhetoric, or take it somewhere else.
If you don't like your new President Obama, don't take it out on this blog.
AIDS
The only means by which AIDS will EVER be reduced is to teach abstinence...afterall, God is on the side of THAT argument.
Further, I have a few sites for you to visit, too. I did visit the one you suggested.
It has LONG been established that condoms may work or they may not. Can you picture people who do not have any sense of morality concerning intercourse practicing the use of condoms? Adultery or fornication has nothing to do with AIDS spreading anyway, although it does other STD's. The read culprit in AIDS is the practice of bisex intercourse. AIDS is most rampant in the homosex societies, and those who practice both homosex and male/female intercourse.
There would be NO AIDS if only male/female intercourse was practiced; but there would be other STD's.
Anyway, teaching the reason to practice abstinence should surely be the FIRST line of defense. If a person can come to believe that it is the right and moral thing to do, they will have less inclination to do otherwise.
It used to be the fear of getting pregnant that prevented STD's and premarital pregnancies, but thanks to the condom and other birth contol measures, people are no longer constrained by anything, even the fear of STD's and AIDS. Condoms won't work in an immoral world; not discounting one other reason is the FACT that they can break, they may be poorly manufactured and weak and viruses can penetrate them during intercourse.
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Africa/BG1692.cfm
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2006/aug/06081505.html
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2005/feb/05020408.html
P.S, Shock and Awe
As for North Korea: We have Pres. Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush to thank that we have an anti-ballistic missle program to deal with "dear leaders" threats; we would be pleased to share it with the world but Obama is bowing to Putin right now.
Hope we can help you and your country out when you need us...even if you do hate us. But, that will be up to Barack Housein Obama, the worlds new idol.
Immigrants
On 02 Jul 2009, at 3:26 PM, Glenda Smith wrote:
Alexis de Tocqueville: Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude.
Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.
All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
The immigrants who came to this country had one thing in common: they were fleeing from tyranny of some kind, or seeking
a land known for freedom and the above beliefs..
Through their struggles to build their lives here, they had no allegiance to any other country but America. They
worked hard and joined together to become “one nation, under God, with liberty and justice for all…”. They fought for and died
for this liberty and justice, and we are still fighting for it here at home and abroad for others. We don’t stand by and watch
others be brutalized because we know where we have come from. We have our differences, but we love the freedom
this country has…we certainly intend to live and die for that freedom, whether in our own land or on foreign soil.
Are you too young to appreciate the American blood that was shed for the freedoms of England, France, Japan, Germany, and even
the nations that are our vowed enemies? If you take America out of the equation of this world you would have thousands of time more extreme poverty,
disease, tyranny and terrorism. For every fault you can name, .history and truth can provide hundreds of virtues for the sheer existence of our nation.
Every time you find fault with us, you have hundreds more of you own.
As for the immigrants I am talking about, they have only one goal, to make this world an Islamic world…for Allah and Mohammed’s glory.
Whether you know it or not, those Islamic immigrants will influence your government without voting;
someone in your government has already considered allowing Shia law to be enforced among those
immigrants. Do you not believe that it is changing the values and laws of England when they can
influence YOUR elected officials through their sheer numbers?
Legislators are going to listen to those they think wield the power numerically, and promising them
those things they want will be a way for the politicians to stay in power. That is what is happening in
America. Those who don't pay taxes but live off welfare and socialized medicine will always vote for
those politicians who promise them more money or services. To hell with democracy and the right to
work for a better life when governments can "keep" us. One day we wake up and government begins
to take away those promises; we find we HAVE to do things in order to be able to eat, or to go to a doctor.
We HAVE to depend on government because government is solidly entrenched and does not need our votes
any longer.
Perhaps you have experienced a little bit of this already. I have not, and I will fight not to have to. I will fight especially for my
family, my children and grand children...and yes, I will also pray. I am praying daily for good to overcome evil and for the wickedness of the wicked to fall upon their own
heads...just like Kind David prayed.
PS: Since 2001, I am sure the percentage rates are doubled, at least.
The local authorities with a Muslim population greater than 10% are:
* London Borough of Tower Hamlets 36.4% 71,389
* London Borough of Newham 24.3% 59,293
* Blackburn with Darwen 19.4% 26,674
* City of Bradford 16.1% 75,188
* London Borough of Waltham Forest 15.1% 32,902
* Luton 14.6% 26,963
* Birmingham 14.3% 139,771
* London Borough of Hackney 13.8% 27,908
* Pendle 13.4% 11,988
* Slough 13.4% 15,897
* London Borough of Brent 12.3% 32,290
* London Borough of Redbridge 11.9% 28,487
* City of Westminster 11.8% 21,346
* London Borough of Camden 11.6% 22,906
* London Borough of Haringey 11.3% 24,371
* Metropolitan Borough of Oldham 11.1% 24,039
* Leicester 11.0% 30,885
* London Borough of Ealing 10.3% 31,033
* Kirklees 10.1% 39,312
Most large cities have one area that is a majority Muslim even if the rest of the city has a fairly small Muslims population; see, for example, Harehills in Leeds. In addition, it is possible to find small areas that are almost entirely Muslim: for example, Savile Town in Dewsbury.[31]
Demography and ethnic background
According to the 2001 census 1,536,015 Muslims are living in England and Wales[29], where they form 3% of the population.
British Muslim population by Ethnic group (Source: 2001 Census[30])
Number of Muslims Muslims as % of ethnic group Ethnic group as % of Muslims
White 179,733 0.4 11.6
White British 63,042 0.1 4.1
White Irish 890 0.1 <0.1
Other White 115,841 8.6 7.5
Mixed 64,262 9.7 4.2
White & Black Caribbean 1,385 0.6 0.1
White & Black African 10,523 13.3 0.7
White & Asian 30,397 16.1 2.0
Other Mixed 21,957 14.1 1.4
Asian or Asian British 1,139,065 50.1 73.7
Indian 131,662 12.7 8.5
Pakistani 657,680 92.0 42.5
Bangladeshi 261,776 92.5 16.8
Other Asian 90,013 37.3 5.8
Black or Black British 106,345 9.3 6.9
Black Caribbean 4,477 0.8 0.3
Black African 96,136 20.0 6.2
Other Black 5,732 6.0 0.4
Chinese 752 0.3 <0.1
Other Ethnic Group 56,429 25.7 3.7
Total 1,546,626 3.0 100
[PARA][PARA]
A Profile of Muslims In Canada
by Abdul Malik Mujahid assisted by Amerah Egab
POPULATION
* Muslims in Canada today number more than 750,000
* According to the 2001 census the Canadian population consisted of 579, 600 Muslims, representing 2% of the Canadian population
* If Muslim maintained the same growth rate as the last decade since the census, today Muslims in Canada number 753,480. (From 2001 to 2003, according to statistics from Citizenship and Immigration Canada, an estimated 132,600 Muslims immigrated to Canada. That's a rise of 23 percent)
* Ontario contains 61% of the entire Muslim population
* 5% of all Toronto population is Muslims, making Toronto the highest concentration of Muslims in any city in the US or Canada
* There are 21 Federal ridings with 7% to 14% Muslim population which can emerge as a major electoral forceOn 02 Jul 2009, at 3:26 PM, Glenda Smith wrote:
Alexis de Tocqueville: Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude.
Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.
All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
The immigrants who came to this country had one thing in common: they were fleeing from tyranny of some kind, or seeking
a land known for freedom and the above beliefs..
Through their struggles to build their lives here, they had no allegiance to any other country but America. They
worked hard and joined together to become “one nation, under God, with liberty and justice for all…”. They fought for and died
for this liberty and justice, and we are still fighting for it here at home and abroad for others. We don’t stand by and watch
others be brutalized because we know where we have come from. We have our differences, but we love the freedom
this country has…we certainly intend to live and die for that freedom, whether in our own land or on foreign soil.
Are you too young to appreciate the American blood that was shed for the freedoms of England, France, Japan, Germany, and even
the nations that are our vowed enemies? If you take America out of the equation of this world you would have thousands of time more extreme poverty,
disease, tyranny and terrorism. For every fault you can name, .history and truth can provide hundreds of virtues for the sheer existence of our nation.
Every time you find fault with us, you have hundreds more of you own.
As for the immigrants I am talking about, they have only one goal, to make this world an Islamic world…for Allah and Mohammed’s glory.
Whether you know it or not, those Islamic immigrants will influence your government without voting;
someone in your government has already considered allowing Shia law to be enforced among those
immigrants. Do you not believe that it is changing the values and laws of England when they can
influence YOUR elected officials through their sheer numbers?
Legislators are going to listen to those they think wield the power numerically, and promising them
those things they want will be a way for the politicians to stay in power. That is what is happening in
America. Those who don't pay taxes but live off welfare and socialized medicine will always vote for
those politicians who promise them more money or services. To hell with democracy and the right to
work for a better life when governments can "keep" us. One day we wake up and government begins
to take away those promises; we find we HAVE to do things in order to be able to eat, or to go to a doctor.
We HAVE to depend on government because government is solidly entrenched and does not need our votes
any longer.
Perhaps you have experienced a little bit of this already. I have not, and I will fight not to have to. I will fight especially for my
family, my children and grand children...and yes, I will also pray. I am praying daily for good to overcome evil and for the wickedness of the wicked to fall upon their own
heads...just like Kind David prayed.
PS: Since 2001, I am sure the percentage rates are doubled, at least.
The local authorities with a Muslim population greater than 10% are:
* London Borough of Tower Hamlets 36.4% 71,389
* London Borough of Newham 24.3% 59,293
* Blackburn with Darwen 19.4% 26,674
* City of Bradford 16.1% 75,188
* London Borough of Waltham Forest 15.1% 32,902
* Luton 14.6% 26,963
* Birmingham 14.3% 139,771
* London Borough of Hackney 13.8% 27,908
* Pendle 13.4% 11,988
* Slough 13.4% 15,897
* London Borough of Brent 12.3% 32,290
* London Borough of Redbridge 11.9% 28,487
* City of Westminster 11.8% 21,346
* London Borough of Camden 11.6% 22,906
* London Borough of Haringey 11.3% 24,371
* Metropolitan Borough of Oldham 11.1% 24,039
* Leicester 11.0% 30,885
* London Borough of Ealing 10.3% 31,033
* Kirklees 10.1% 39,312
Most large cities have one area that is a majority Muslim even if the rest of the city has a fairly small Muslims population; see, for example, Harehills in Leeds. In addition, it is possible to find small areas that are almost entirely Muslim: for example, Savile Town in Dewsbury.[31]
Demography and ethnic background
According to the 2001 census 1,536,015 Muslims are living in England and Wales[29], where they form 3% of the population.
British Muslim population by Ethnic group (Source: 2001 Census[30])
Number of Muslims Muslims as % of ethnic group Ethnic group as % of Muslims
White 179,733 0.4 11.6
White British 63,042 0.1 4.1
White Irish 890 0.1 <0.1
Other White 115,841 8.6 7.5
Mixed 64,262 9.7 4.2
White & Black Caribbean 1,385 0.6 0.1
White & Black African 10,523 13.3 0.7
White & Asian 30,397 16.1 2.0
Other Mixed 21,957 14.1 1.4
Asian or Asian British 1,139,065 50.1 73.7
Indian 131,662 12.7 8.5
Pakistani 657,680 92.0 42.5
Bangladeshi 261,776 92.5 16.8
Other Asian 90,013 37.3 5.8
Black or Black British 106,345 9.3 6.9
Black Caribbean 4,477 0.8 0.3
Black African 96,136 20.0 6.2
Other Black 5,732 6.0 0.4
Chinese 752 0.3 <0.1
Other Ethnic Group 56,429 25.7 3.7
Total 1,546,626 3.0 100
[PARA][PARA]
A Profile of Muslims In Canada
by Abdul Malik Mujahid assisted by Amerah Egab
POPULATION
* Muslims in Canada today number more than 750,000
* According to the 2001 census the Canadian population consisted of 579, 600 Muslims, representing 2% of the Canadian population
* If Muslim maintained the same growth rate as the last decade since the census, today Muslims in Canada number 753,480. (From 2001 to 2003, according to statistics from Citizenship and Immigration Canada, an estimated 132,600 Muslims immigrated to Canada. That's a rise of 23 percent)
* Ontario contains 61% of the entire Muslim population
* 5% of all Toronto population is Muslims, making Toronto the highest concentration of Muslims in any city in the US or Canada
* There are 21 Federal ridings with 7% to 14% Muslim population which can emerge as a major electoral force
Unbelievable
penfire,
I find it almost inconceivable that Americans can hold the types of views you have espoused in your reply.
Firstly, more than 25% of all the original immigrants returned home to Europe within 20 years. Half of all original Harvard graduates returned back to Europe. America was not the the ideal destination from the start.
Then, the America you have today was built on the mass graves of American Indians, and by the sweat and blood of African slaves. If this is what the rest of the world has to go through to become like America, I'd rather not have it. Thanks anyway.
Your version of American history is unbelievably revisionist.
As regards the statistics you quote about Muslims.... my questions is: "so what?" What must be done? Do we kill them all? Do we stop them coming? Do we restrict their movements? Do we engage in constructive dialog with them? What?
> You, sir, are the one with
> You, sir, are the one with the revisionist views.
>
> You have been brainwashed by your world view, hate America without factual a reason.
>
> Where in the world is any documented data for your so-called statistics? Statisics of this day confirm legal immigration to this nation to be the highest of all nations in the world. Illegal immigration from Mexico has been tolerated for years by Mexico, the immigrants and the U.S. government and people. Until recently when the drug cartels, human smuggling and terrorists threats from other nations we have not tried to control our borders, north or south.>
> You might then wonder WHY so many people are trying with all their power to become American citizens...
Before slinging your uppity arrows our way, check out the history of your own country. England occupied most of the world at one time or another. > They had a BIG, HUGE, part in slave trade. Your heritage is that of selling human beings, and then you turn around and blame the whole of American history on mistreating people.
>
> By the way, Arab Muslims STILL deal in slavery, everyday; and so does Mexico. Why don't you yak about that while your
> at it.
>
>The Amrican settlers had good relations with the American Indians before ignorant politicians and greedy men began their evil doing. However, unlike England, America has tried to repair any wrong doing among Indians and blacks.
Unlike England, we have many black statesmen and women. We even have many FORMER Brits here who will fight and die for America and its way of life.
I stand by my remarks and my beliefs in the letter previous to this one.
What is your point?
penfire,
Please calm down, and try and have a rational discussion.
Firstly, I have quoted no statistics. So, please tell me which statistics you are referring to, and why you think I have distorted them.
Secondly, I am not British. I am South African. Please be VERY careful when throwing around accusatory statements on this blog. We try to not make assumptions about the motives and backgrounds of the contributors.
Speaking of which, thirdly, I am not against America. I was most certainly opposed to the Bush administration, but then so were many Americans! I believe America has an important role in the world, and should use its power wisely.
Finally, I am still very interested in your point. Really, I am. You say that Muslims are moving into the UK, Canada and America. What must be done about it? What is your response to my original post?
Statistics
Dear Graeme,
Thank you. I want to calm down, but it is very hard when you have someone slandering and making provocative statements about your country. I know this country has its flaws and its skeletons, but so does every country in the world. We cannot keep slinging accusations at each other today about what happened hundreds of years ago.
I grew up in the South where there was racism, but it was also rampant in the north. This fact does not negate the evil of racism wherever it is practiced. We have to consider the cultures of the day also.
My parents NEVER talked derogatorily of blacks as a race. My grandmother, on my father's side, was very racist. She did not know that's what she was though. She just remembered her grandfather who fought in the Civil War (War Between the States; but she did hold racial bias and held old southern bias against blacks.
I never heard my parents or granparents say the "N" word; they said "colored", which many say is unacceptable also. Anyway, she heard me say "Yes Mam" to one of the maids we had to do our ironing, and she "corrected" me about that. However, I did not listen to her because I liked our maid very much, and played with her little grandchild who came with her. I was showing respect to her as I would any other adult; it is the way I was raised. One afternoon, we drove our maid home and when I saw the house she lived in I was very, very concerned. I asked my Mom why she had to live in a house like that (very small, unpainted, probably no indoor plumbing). My Mom just said, "I don't know honey, its just the way it is...". I always tried to be kind to people no matter their skin color, but I did not perceive our way of life as "evil". ]
I am very glad that segregation is over in America and firmly believe we were blessed by its ending. America is not perfect, and never will be. But as a people, we are striving for equality of all kinds, including racial. I really believe the elction of President Obama prooves we are not racists, even the ones who voted agaist him, including me. I do not agree with his political policies. sometimes he says and does things I do agree with and I give him the credit for it. But for the most part, I disagree with his very progressive, liberal politics. It has nothing to do with his race, but he does use the race card to try to confuse those who do not know what's going on. I am sure you are influenced by the things you hear in the news, and have heard about race playing a part in our elections. Well, believe me, its not true for the majority of people. Yes, there are fanatics who make the headlines. But so it is in Europe. I am sure it is so in South Aftica and I know it is in England.
As for the statistics I was talking about, here they are:
Firstly, more than 25% of all the original immigrants returned home to Europe within 20 years. Half of all original Harvard graduates returned back to Europe. America was not the the ideal destination from the start.
I thank God I am an American, but it doesn't make me better than anyone else, it just makes me more blessed.
Well, I can say good riddance to those "Harvard Graduates"; what is so speical about them? Some of our presidents graduated from Harvard, but that does not make them any better than someone who never went to college...like Abraham Lincoln for instance. I think he was one of the most wise men that ever lived, as well as the disciples of Jesus. Even the apostel Paul said that he considered his knowledge as "dung" compared to the knowledge he had of Jesus Christ. This is my point, intellectualism can easily lead a person to think more highly of themselves than they ought to.
Jesus chose unlearned men as His disciples so that's enough for me to prove the wisdom of man is not on His list of requirements to enter His Kingdom. I'm proud of the immigrants who came and stayed and made America a country that people still seek to come to to make better lives for themselves and for their children and grandchildren.
As for George W. Bush, no body can judge another man's heart. Whether he should have gone to war or not will come to light someday in history if we live long enough. I know one thing, he delivered hundreds of thousands of Iraqui citizens from torture and death. Speaking of mass graves, there were many in Iraq thanks to Sadaam Housein, and there would have been many more if he had not been brought to justice; by his own people by the way.
By the way, would you accuse German citizens today of being guilty of the mass graves and six thousand deaths of Jews during WWII? Do you accept the responsibility of the Crusades? You seem to have no problem blaming Americans of somthing that happened over a hundred years ago.
I welcome peace loving Muslim people who come here to better their lives for themselves and their children. But not those who come to demand that our country has to change its system to accomodate them; or if they preach hate against Christians and Jews, and foment jihadist actions. We expect and will demand that our government deal with Muslims according to their actions, verbal or otherwise, just as we would any person, whatever their ethnic or racial heritage. Our government works for the people, not the other way around, at least, that is the way our founding fathers intened it.
Thanks - but I am battling to follow the conversation
penfire,
Thanks for your response, and for he information you have provided. Very interesting and helpful.
I am, however, battling to see how my original post on "changing the guards" sparked your thoughts. I am also still interested to know what point you were (are) trying to make in your comments.
If your issues have been addressed, then that's great. But for now, I am not sure how to take this conversation further.
Thanks again for interacting. Please know that I am a supporter of America's role in the world.